www.democracyforamerica.com and their supporters have a TV ad showing in DC and in the state of Nebraska that is debunking right-wing agents provocateur at town halls all over the old country.The above ad appears to have cut some ice with Senator Ben Nelson D-NE who is one of too many Democratic Senators currently delaying current health care legislation in the US congress.
The group is looking for more real-life stories like the Nebraska restaurant owner. How 'bout you?
I've talked to many US expats that have told me that affordable health care was a major reason for them coming to Argentina. Some folks write me to say that it would be the main reason for a decision to come here.
Was health care an important issue for your moving to Argentina?
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For me - an American who can afford health insurance and had excellent coverage in the US before my move to Argentina not long ago - health care was a serious concern of mine when moving to Argentina. I'm aware that there is some number of very good medical professionals there and that private care can be good, but I wondered about care on the margin. It is one thing to get in to see your primary care doctor quickly or for the waiting room to look nice, but quite another to be sure you have access to truly world-class care in the event that (Heaven forbid) you contract a very serious, difficult disease. I was (and am) not confident about the latter in Argentina and so living there seems like rolling the dice health care-wise (with loaded dice - the odds of getting a terrible disease are admittedly low) to me to some extent.
On the flip side, it doesn't seem very likely to me that an American who's not able to get health insurance in the US would be likely to move to a middle-income country 5,000 miles away to get (presumably public) health care there, although I'm sure it's happened some number of times.
typical american making judgments about what they don't know...
Anonymous, if you want to know, i have had better medical attention here than my experiences in the us (and not only mine). About serious illnesses i can tell you the experience of a friend of mine, she had been diagnosed here while in the us they took forever to make a diagnose and of course, they lost valuable time.
I'm not american and of course my view could be influenced by mi pride but i'm talking about experiences i have had here and in the us and that people that i know.
My boyfriend is from the us and he is studying medicine here for many reasons, two being: good education and practice which doctors to be in the us dont have (again talking from experience).
And oh! he doesn't want to work in the us as a doctor if the system stays like it is right know because he would be working more as a bussinessman...
sorry it's long but this gets on my nerves..
As I said I am talking about illnesses or conditions that are really difficult to deal with; for a whole litany of reasons I won't try to list (but that I'd think would be obvious) I'm pretty certain that you are likely to be able to get better care for those types of conditions in the US than in Argentina. For example, for what it's worth, I happen to know that Medicus, one of the best private health care organizations in Argentina, provides an option (for an additional monthly fee) that allows for care in the US in the event of a difficult case, although the amount of costs they allow for are probably too small to do much good. And that is at only one US hospital (albeit a good one I believe) as opposed to the various hospitals and doctors you would likely have access to if you were in the US (and insured).
I don't find your one piece of anecdotal evidence (regarding your friend) very convincing, especially since it relates to speed of diagnosis (which is admittedly important) and not on-the-margin-difficult treatment, which was my point. As I said, I'm confident one can get good medical care in Argentina, at least from private providers; what I'm not so sure about getting there is world-class care for very difficult problems. Regarding your boyfriend, I'm sure he has his reasons for studying in Argentina and I'm sure it's possible to get good medical training there, but I don't think any serious person would suggest that the average quality of medical training in Argentina is as high as it is in the US.
I know Argentina very well and I'm a pretty big fan of it, but I think what I'm saying is pretty obviously true.
I now see you have two pieces of anecdotal evidence rather than one; sorry I missed that. It doens't change my response above.
Where is my other (much longer) post that preceded that last one? The last one makes no sense without it.
For that one-in-a-billion, super rare disease, the US is probably the place to be. For us mortals, there are dozens of countries that supply better medical care than does the United States, Argentina being one of them.
My second child was born in BsAs. Why? because we chose to give him and my wife the benefits of superior Argentine health care by flying to Argentina specifically to give birth.
My wife and son received excellent medical care, my first son and I had a nice vacation, and the Porteno baby now has an Argentine passport to go with his US one. And yes Birthers, he is a natural born American citizen!
PS: Hi Mike!
At least you seem to be getting my point. It seems I think it's more likely than you do that one would have a serious problem of the sort I'm talking about (though still unlikely as I've said). More power to you, but personally I don't think I'd choose to have my baby born in Argentina rather than the US on purpose. Of course there are probably thousands of babies born every day in Argentina with no complications so again I'm talking about extreme cases. And again, I myself moved to Argentina recently, decided I could live with the risk (as I perceived it)and had good experiences with medical care there (specifically Medicus). My point in posting orinally was only that if someone moves to Argentina from the US in part for Argentine health care, that seems misguided to me in most cases.
I'm curious what the basis is for your claims that medical care is better in Argentina in the US? Lower prices? Hard to realistically think of much else. With all due respect, that seems like a fairly outlandish claim to me generally speaking.
Again with all due respect, the notion that there are "dozens of countries that supply better health care than the US" strikes me as laughable.
("medical care is better in Argentina in the US? Hard to realistically think of much other reason than lower prices." and "dozens of countries that supply better health care than the US strikes me as laughable.")
Wow. Anonymous, were we too nice to you? Those last two shots over the bow almost looks like you'd like some confrontation.
The trouble is, as you asked, deciding the basis for "good, better, best." But given the sorry state of medical affairs back in the old country, I think the ball is in your court as to whether USA is #1 in any regard.
I personally know US mothers that have told me that they'd rather give birth here than anywhere else.
A NYT editorial of 2 years ago looked at 7 categories by which medical care can be judged ...and some surveys in which the US was compared:
Insurance coverage: dead last among all other industrialized nations.
Access: long waits exist in the US even among above average incomes.
Fairness: dead last by all measures of equity.
Quality: last place in a ranking with 5 other countries. High quality with clinical guidelines but poor with chronically ill and deaths due to medical and surgical mistakes.
Life and death: in a comparison of 5 countries, best for breast cancer, 2nd for cervical cancer and childhood leukemia, worst for kidney transplants, and almost-worst for liver transplants and colorectal cancer. In an 8 country comparison, worst in years of potential life lost to circulatory diseases, respiratory diseases and diabetes and had the second highest death rate from bronchitis, asthma and emphysema. Although several factors can affect these results, it seems likely that the quality of care delivered was a significant contributor.
Patient satisfaction: 14th out of 17 countries. In a comparison of five countries, last place.
Use of information technology: years behind doctors in other advanced nations in adopting electronic medical records or prescribing medications electronically.
Those are 7 pretty good bases for judging health care in any country.
Now, that having been said... would you like to give us something other than anecdotes?
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