This is my full reply to Martin Varsavsky's column in the Huffington Post:
Mr. Varsavsky,
I am a yanqui that emigrated to Argentina more than four years ago.
I take issue with your assertion that Argentina has moved from the "ranks of the developed world to the less developed world." Please do us all a favor and describe what, in your opinion, was "developed" when your opinion of Argentina was higher... and what about Argentina today is "less developed". Without that, we may feel as if we know what you are talking about... but we really don't.
You say that, in the country of your birth, "GDP per capita was higher and better distributed when I was born in the '60s than now." Very true, I believe. But all I can think of saying to that is, "me, too."
Measuring the 2002 "poverty line" is a tricky business with a nation that finally unplugged itself from a 1-to-1 ratio with the US Dollar. By some measures, what you say is true. What measure do you use. Do you recognize any other measures?
"Largest default in human history" is another interesting measure. Argentina has defaulted on its foriegn obligations more than twice in its history.
Most recently, the default has only affected private speculators (and those poor, foreign souls that trusted them.) Even then, the "investors", that had no reason to believe that they would ever receive a return other than a government bailout, protested when Argentina offered them more than 20 cents on the dollar for their folly. Some default, eh? They just don't make capitalists like they did when we were born.
Argentina paid and is paying every dollar the IMF and the World Bank ever loaned them. The big thing is: on top of the repayment, they're not asking for anything more. Believe it or not, the IMF and WB don't like that. We can only guess for ourselves as to why.
Then, after painting such a negative portrait, youre article seems to change color... you seem to credit the "stiffing" of some rather few piratical "welfare-capitalists" with Argentina's dramatic recovery.
Maybe you're just being aplogetic for such a strong showing from "one of the only countries in the world that has moved from the ranks of the developed world to the less developed world."
Argentina's recovery has been due to sound fiscal policy and the fact that after disconnecting from the dollar it became a sound investment.
A sound investment to those who actually invest... rather than those that expect their losses be redeemed by "less developed" nations seeking not to lose access to foreign capital.
But let's not the both of us declare victory just yet. Consumer debt is suddenly skyrocketing in Argentina as money pours in from the exterior pressuring prices with what could be inflation... or just good-old-fashioned price gouging.
Yes, Argentina has much to teach the US. But not from the position of "failed state"
Now, what do you suggest to restore Argentina to it's throne of "a bigger middle-class than all of Latin America combined"? Something that still actually may be true.
15 comments:
Bravo Mike!!!!
Leí tu respuesta sin leer el artículo y reconozco al típico analista, excelente para pintar el cuadro de -advertencias- pero igual de ineficaces a la hora de aportar soluciones.
Again, Bravo Mike!!!
Juan F.
I'm pretty sure he was pointing to the cash-based economy as a possible benefit for Argentina in light of an impending international credit debacle. But really, let's step outside Recoleta and admit that this is a 'less developed' country. It just does a better job of whisking the muck under the rug.
Mike, I like your style. I too would like a person to support their statements!
Gracias, Juan F... que schizophrenico era el artículo de Varsavsky!
Thanks, Quinn. I know what he was pointing to... but why did he take so LONG to get to the point??? That made me suspicious of his motives... and I didn't like what he said, either.
With all due respect, Quinn, tell me what you're talking about when you agree with the description of Argentina as a "less than developed" country.
Less developed than what?
Assuming you're yanqui como yo... do you mean less developed than the US? I don't understand that.
If you are a rich US citizen, you're "sitting in the catbird seat." But the vast majority of US citizens are not rich... and even the fairly wealthy cannot afford health insurance. The majority of Argentinos can see a doctor, gratis. Please don't give me the Bush line of being able to go to an Emergency Room (not that you would give me that)... we know that Emergency Rooms, nowadays, will hound you to your grave with bill collectors for their services.
Other than the "toniest" parts of the US (shades of Recoleta!) the US does not look any longer to me as "developed" as it did when I was born.
Argentina has much to teach the US, as Varsavsky says... but we're not listening and we have a long tradition of never borrowing ideas from any other nation... certainly not from "failed states."
I have heard many unfair statements regarding Argentina before but I have never heard it described as a failed state. That is another reason to suspect Mr. V's motives.
Rather than "Cash is King", maybe the best lesson that Argentina can teach to anyone is... the post-dictatorship lesson. One of the things that I love about Argentinos is that they have been "through the crucible" of brutal, murderous dictatorship... and not even the military wants to go back to that.
As yanquis, we are famous for our gorgeous, splendid, forward-looking naïveté... but if we devolve to the same condition as 1970's Argentina, we will lose that once and for all. Elvis will have left the building permanently.
"We" are always told how developed we are... but we are becoming hollowed-out. IMHO, we have no bragging rights on Recoleta or the other most prosperous parts of Argentina.
I am constantly reminded of parallels between here and the US... especially as regards Argentina traditionally having a larger middle-class than all of Latin America combined.
Much to teach, much to learn. But we, apparently, won't be taught by Varsavsky... and we don't have a good track record of learning from anyone.
Thanks, Jamie... you're pretty stylish yourself!
Mike
Don't get me wrong--there are definitely great things to be learned from this country. But from a political, economic, and social-justice standpoint I think it is fair to stay that this a less developed country. I am taking the United States and Western Europe, South Korea, Australia as benchmarks.
Politically, I have never encountered the degree of citizen apathy as I see here. The impression I get is that political corruption, rather than be seen as an unthinkable taboo is taken for granted. Because politicians here are so unfailingly corrupt!
Economically, despite the admirable recent growth, it's hard to be terribly optimistic in the long run. Almost all of Argentina's current exports are derived from the country's vast raw materials. But in today's global economy, the proven key to economic success is creating technology based jobs. UBA graduates 2400 lawyers a year and 240 engineers. Come on!
Perhaps most importantly, the country is failing to attract international investment because it hasn't embraced political stability. Unlike Chile, which has remained a stable center-based democracy since the end of their military regime, Argentine politics are constantly infused with populist and anti-American rhetoric. Now Christina is snuggling up with Chavez and blaming the States for her little briefcase fiasco.
More basically, though:
Little kids on the pot-holed street, hungry sick.
Villas. If you haven't, go to one. It's how a huge percentage of Argentines live. They hide the poor well here, but it doesn't mean that they don't exist.
Getting robbed. All the time.
"Negros de mierda" I've heard that one a lot!
Waiting in line. Crazy crazy bureaucracy!
Hopefully that gives you an idea where I'm coming from! On the other hand, people aren't popping Prozzak here: because they don't need to! I totally dig the ability to distinguish between one's work and one's life--and putting all the emphasis on the latter. That being said, I think if you're born into a villa here you're pretty much fucked. And much more fucked than being born into the lowest social sector in the States entails.
All the best,
Quinn
Quinn
"I think it is fair to stay that this a less developed country."
You're saying that Argentina is less developed than the US... nothing wrong with that. What Varsavsky said was that it had fallen from the "ranks of the developed world to the less developed world." That's different. That's unfair and ill informed to point of lying.
Politically, I have never encountered the degree of citizen apathy as I see here. The impression I get is that political corruption, rather than be seen as an unthinkable taboo is taken for granted. Because politicians here are so unfailingly corrupt!
Does it really look apathetic to you compared to the US? Conservatives there have spent the last 25 years trying to convince people that government can't and shouldn't make your life better... now that the money's running out the argument might be mute.
Economically, despite the admirable recent growth, it's hard to be terribly optimistic in the long run. Almost all of Argentina's current exports are derived from the country's vast raw materials. But in today's global economy, the proven key to economic success is creating technology based jobs.
You sure keep me wonderin', Quinn. Why are vast raw materials (I assume you'll include vast amounts of food and fresh water) not a reason to be terribly optimistic? Proven? What about bubble?
Perhaps most importantly, the country is failing to attract international investment because it hasn't embraced political stability.
Now I'm convinced that you're reading from a script.
How can you have 9% growth for 4 maybe 5 years in a row without international investment?
You want MORE international investment? Why, for God's sake?
Political instability? Good Lord, man. Where did you get that?
So...
...you like Chile who crushed their organized labor movement along with their innocents...
...you don't like Populism but you fail to mention why...
...anti-Americanism is something no American likes but it's far from rare in this world and did not exist anywhere near today's level until the US self-inflicted it...
...you don't like Chavez and anyone who "snuggles-up" to him...
...Hey! You forgot Fidel Castro! You're slippin', Quinn.
Little kids on the pot-holed street, hungry sick.
Detroit, Washington DC, Compton; you need to get out more.
Villas. If you haven't, go to one. It's how a huge percentage of Argentines live. They hide the poor well here, but it doesn't mean that they don't exist.
Please don't tell people to go to villas... one of them might actually do it.
The reason the US poor are hidden (fairly well from some people, apparently) in places other than villas is due to US legal emphasis on crimes to property. Villas in the US would be burned down by the authorities, if necessary... it's happened before.
(People born in villas are)much more fucked than being born into the lowest social sector in the States
Except they don't get burned out by the police and can all get free health care.
Getting robbed. All the time.
Now you're just being stupid.
"Negros de mierda" I've heard that one a lot!
Where exactly are you from?
Waiting in line. Crazy crazy bureaucracy!
Impatient little yanqui, aren't you? I want my MTV!
Hopefully that gives you an idea where I'm coming from! Yeah. It did.
Oh... by the way, don't write back.
I still remember the hopeless look of the people from the black neighborhoods in the South side of Chicago sleeping inside boxes during Winter...
I still remember lining up at the Immigration offices for days...
I still remember the percentages of people going to vote on election days in the US...
I still remember the gangs shooting anyone in the streets of the Back of the Yards...
I still remember the brutality of the health system...
I still remember the fake documents sellers in the corners of the Mexican neighborhoods...
I still remember people going bankrupt after refinancing their mortgages to pay their credit cards interests to finally loose everything, even their homes...
I still remember the fear of being taken as a terrorist for opposing the war...
I still remember the way Bush was "elected"...
I also have great memories.
I remember that there were and are a big bunch of concerned American citizens trying to change all of that.
Hopefully one day they are going to stop those nightmares and show back to the world what The Land of the Free really means.
I guess you know where I am from, where I chose to live and why.
I forgot to say that UBA is free (in money terms and unrestricted in career election terms). That´s also the case of many other excellent universities in the rest of Argentina.
There are a lot of myths written here about Argentina by those who wnat to feel morally and racially superior.
How can anyone in the right mind from the United States tell us Argentines that our people live badly when they have two million people in Jails more than any country on earth.
I rather live in a Villa miseria in Buenos Aires than spend my days in an American Jail just for minor infractions or being black.
Its funny that they say Argentines are rascist and then Mr Quinn and others from the United States why do 40 percent of all American Africans spend time in your jails?
I feel the same way, anon.
But don't get me wrong, Quinn is obviously an "OK Guy". He wasn't being hateful and he actually likes Buenos Aires and Argentina, I think.
Quinn reminds me of a lot of yanquis that I know and have met here... and I'm talking about the better-than-average US citizen not some RushLimbaugh wanna-be.
It's not that they're evil... it's that they're banal (sorry, Hannah.)
Everything is a "no-brainer" to them... for them the solution is SO very simple to everything: just be like the United States of America.
"Can't you people SEE that? It's a plain as the nose on your face! Just be like us... all your troubles will disappear!"
They never think any further than that.
Now add to that how a tremendous percentage of US citizens have been trained to "parrot" the slogans and opinions of the tiny percentage that actually own the US (right now, as we speak, about 30% of US citizens would vote for G.W.Bush again!)
Quinn was just reading from a script... and he probably didn't even know it.
I'll bet he's a cheerful guy that would be fun to meet and have a few beers with... and if he found out that you were in need of any kind of personal assistance or help, he'd probably give you all the money in his pocket and the shirt off his back. (This is the thing that confuses every citizen of every other country on earth... the ones that hate the US and the ones that love it.)
But when it comes to making sense of the world... outside of personal interaction... it's back to the script.
"Don't get me wrong--there are definitely great things to be learned from this country. But from a political, economic, and social-justice standpoint...
Just WHAT exactly was he thinking that RA could teach? (Old yanqui joke: "other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?)
It's all scripted:
"There's no way like the American Way."
"There's no finer government than American Government."
"There's no higher standard of living than the American Standard of Living."
"There's no higher quality of health care than American Health Care."
"There's no higher education like American Higher Education."
"There is no economy like the American Economy."
"There is no freedom like American Freedom."
"No country is so free of poverty, racism, crime, corruption, and political apathy, than the Good 'ol USofA!"
Like a guy that repeats a joke that everyone has heard a million times, but that he thinks is so fresh... he doesn't understand why nobody laughs. "What's a matter with you people? No sense of humor?" And he's just as innocent and guileless as that joker.
But it's a sad joke, black humor, really. It is that script that keeps the people of the US from seeking and demanding reforms in all those areas that could actually give Quinn the superiority he feels he already possesses.
Believe it or not, I'm not just another American on his lolly-pop 3 month "immersion" in the uber-contrived BA private University study-abroad program.
In fact, this is the perspective that I was reacting to (which is not to say that I thought anyone here was coming from this place). It's easy to romanticize a country where you're essentially on vacation, or where you're immediately moved from a middle class social status to the highest. And I have to deal with this a lot.
The question was whether Argentina is a less developed country than the United States or Canada or other countries traditionally viewed as "first world". I don't know how that precipitated the all so productive "your country is better than mine" playoff. Maybe the problem is that "developed" is a super ambiguous term and so the discussions of course are going to be missing each other a lot.
My (apparently controversial) claim was meant to be that Argentina is less developed politically and economically and in terms of social justice. This is from my experience as a well-traveled American working for pesos, living (and loving) with Argentines.
As much as I love this country, like most of my Argentine friends, I have very little respect for its political apparatus. I hope to be proved wrong in the coming years, but the track record is an ugly cloud.
Of course no country is perfect. The American health care system is not working. And any half-way informed citizen is informed of the inexcusable racial disparities in US jails. At least the first of these issues should be fixed soon.
I think the Argentine hostility towards the States is lame not because it hurts my feelings (for better or worse, I have no national pride) but because I believe it hurts Argentines. This is because I believe in international trade and benefiting from comparative advantages and that fostering an improved relation with the States would facilitate both of these things.
What else is there to be learned from this country? So much! It would be a joke to try and paraphrase the richness of this culture. Most important lessons to me lately have been the value of spending time with friends and family; the greatness of physical affection; the appropriate (de-)emphasis on work...I could go on.
Anyway, I don't understand the "reading from a script" patronizing or all the talking-down in general. Maybe I have different political opinions than most here, but shit, it's not like I watch Fox News. I'm educated and I think I do a good job of having reasons for most of my opinions--if I don't state them all explicitly it's only for the sake of brevity. Which aim I've obviously missed here! cheers.
"Villas in the US would be burned down by the authorities, if necessary... it's happened before."
Where?
Hey Orange County!
Glad to see you drop by.
Take a look at the Bonus Army. A bunch of war heroes that built a villa on the Anacostia Flats in view of the US Capitol...
Burned out... but none other than Douglas MacArthur.
Wiki "Bonus Army"... there's a great foto.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army
Want another?
Mike
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