Thursday, May 17, 2007

"SLATS" JOHNSON SPEAKS!

THE YM INTERVIEW
...with Bob Johnson

Last week I ran into Bob Johnson in the callecitas of Retiro while he was wandering down Esmeralda perusing the window displays of the hardware stores, mercerías, and tack shops.

He seemed genuinely pleased to see me and we made arrangements to meet a few days later for an afternoon beer in a local strip joint...that being the only kind of place left in town where you can smoke at the bar.

I've always liked Bob. Like me, he's originally from Chicago, he has a great old Chicago nickname: "Slats", and now makes Buenos Aires his home with his Argentine wife, Chiche. But other than that we're not much alike.

Bob moved here right after the crash and soon had put together a string of successful locutorios. About 3 years ago, he sold them all and bought two big blueberry farms somewhere way out in the province.

We met just as scheduled on that crispy autumn afternoon and ducked inside the friendly confines of the bar. We had the place all to ourselves except for a couple of very bored looking girls in fishnet stockings and bowties who brightened up considerably until we passed them on our way to the big hardwood slab with the stools and big ceramic ashtrays.

It was dark inside compared to the bright fall skies and we felt warm and cozy ensconced in the smoke and dim light. Forty pesos brought forth two ice cold cans of Isenbeck and we drank to each other's very good health.

....."So how's the blog thing coming along?", he asked me. I was sort of startled that he remembered my mentioning my blog to him about a year ago.

I told him it was doing just fine and couldn't help but remark that I didn't think he'd ever really look at it. He just didn't seem to be the blog reading type...whatever type that is.

..... "Well, you know, the blueberry thing doesn't actually run itself but it doesn't take up my time like the old days. Not to even mention the 10-hour days on top of a 2-hour commute back in the old country!" We both laughed, clinked our aluminum cans together and knocked back the last swigs. I called for two more.

My curiosity having been piqued, I asked him what he thought about the redesigned yanquimike punto com punto ar.

..... "Disturbing."

That wasn't the sort of reaction I was expecting...and he could tell by the look on my face.

..... "No, no! Not your redesign! That's fine. A little wacky at first but I got the hang of it after a while.

"What really got to me was a couple of the blogs I found. Both of them written by American guys."

I'm aware, of course, that there are a few blogs run by yanquis that are pretty offensive when they're not being flat-out arrogant and rude to Argentines. I made a few guesses as to what blogs he was refering to.

..... "Nah, none of those guys. You kinda know what to expect from that bunch so I avoid them. What I'm talkin' about is two guys that I've actually met and they're really nice fellas! Friendly, interesting company, intelligent guys. And some of the nicest things I ever read about BA, I read on their blogs. They're nothing like some of them that you find at baexpats.com"

Our third round of beers had just arrived and I was starting to wonder if the suds was already affecting our higher processes.

What could be disturbing about two yanqs, good guys, saying great things about our new hometown?

..... "One of the posts was about residential real estate by a young guy and the other was a nostalgic look at a bunch of little things about Buenos Aires."

I took another slurp out of my can and realized I'd seen both of those blogs. I asked him if those were the posts he was talking about.

..... "Yeah! Those ones! One time I just had to shut my browser down. Me hacía sentir tanto vergüenza ajena", he said in his hilariously accented Castellano.

I was pretty sure that I remembered the posts but I certainly didn't recall anything out of the ordinary and I told him so.

..... "You gotta be kiddin' me. Are you sure you read them? Here. Lemme refresh your memory a little bit.

"The young guy starts off talkin' about how apartments here are different from the States then ends up writin' about how Argentineans discriminate against people because of class and race. The other guy is tryin' to tell people about how a lot of things here remind him of when he was a kid in the 1960's but comes off like he thinks that Buenos Aires is 50 years behind the times!"

Maybe Bob had a point but I reminded him that everybody that lives here knows for a fact that rich porteños don't hang out with poor porteños and if you have dark skin here people are going to occasionally mistake you for the busboy or the portero even if you have a PhD.

....."A course! Any modern industrial society has got class distinctions and whiter, European types always have the best seats at the top. Everybody knows that!"

Now he had me even more confused. So I decided to ask him about the post about old-fashioned stuff about Baires.

....."Hey, I know what the guy was gettin' at. Any American who loves this place has got a couple two tree favorite things that he misses from his childhood that everybody still does here.

"But you gotta be careful! I'm talkin' about being careful not to make it sound like this is Havana or somethin'.

"And another thing! You gotta keep your facts straight if you're gonna do that.

"Garbage disposals were illegal in New York until 10 years ago, the 60's were the gaddam heyday of the automatic transmission and YOU, Mikey, sure as shit, gotta remember back in 1995 when 600 people dropped dead from the heat in Chicago that summer!

"Why'd they drop dead? 'Cause nobody within half a mile from the lake ever had AC as standard equipment!

"They were pulling rich old blue-haired ladies out of their fancy apartments for months."

I like Bob but this was getting out of hand.

He had, however, already ordered another round. The bartender looked at us like he had never seen two guys drink 4 beers each.

I thought I'd try agreeing with him on a couple of points...just to calm him down if nothing else. I conceded that some of the facts were wrong.

..... "Si, Juan. What's the real estate kid's excuse? Like it or not, you and I both know we come from one of the most divided countries on earth and the most famous one when it comes to racism. What'd the kid think: nobody here knows that?

"Anyway, Mike, that isn't the point and you know it. What were these guys tryin' to say, for chrissakes? And why were they havin' such a hard time sayin' it?"

I had no answer. Bob knew these guys, not me. I pointed out that not everybody can write.

..... "Not these guys", he said. "the real estate kid is the son of of a famous Philadelphia author and the old guy is a tenured professor from some Ivy League university. If anybody can write it oughta be these two."

I didn't know what to say.

..... "Ya see, these are some of our best. The United States has its share of assholes like every other country you've ever been in.

"But these guys are buen tipos. Bot' of 'em prolly voted Democrat!

"It almost feels like people don't feel any responsibility. My dear ol' uncle, not Mom's side of the family, the other one, god rest his soul, used to talk about going overseas back in the old days. He always said that his family and friends would tell him to represent his country well. He always said it felt like being an ambassador or something. Right now, 21% of Americans have a passport. And that's a record!

"Maybe moving to a foreign country doesn't feel like such a big deal anymore with the internet and satelite communcation and whatnot. But Christ! Who are these guys writing for? Both of 'em gotta know that when you put something out on the internet, EVERYBODY can see it. Don't they think Argies ever speak English, don't they think that one of their friends might translate it for 'em even if they don't?

"When you talk about somebody's hometown you have to be sensible, I like that word. Sensible. It doesn't mean exactly the same thing in Spanish, maybe it's even better.

"It's like talkin' about somebody's mother or their sister. If somebody started talkin' about how your mother drinks a little too much or how many guys your sister has slept with, well, Mikey, you know, he'd better be pretty careful in his choice of words! If da guy's an idiot, you might cut him some slack. But if the guy doesn't have any psychological excuses and raises his voice a little, he's gotta expect a swing at his nose. Doesn't he, Mike? Doesn't he?

"Aaaah, ¿que se yo?. ¿Que te parece? ¿Querés una más para el camino?"

I consented to the beer, since Bob was buying, and because it looked like we would talk about something more pleasant. I asked him how his blueberry farms were doing.

....."Byooootiful. I've made a pile o' dough and I think it's time to get out while the gettin' is good."

A third business for Bob since 2000? I asked what his plans were.

..... "It's time to move south, Mikeyboy! Did you know that in Patagonia you can buy a hectare of land for the same price as a cup of coffee in Madrid?!? Watch me! I'm gonna make another killin'!

It was good to hear that Bob was doing well. Bob paid the bartender and we headed for the door.

The sun outside was blinding and the air was chilly. I fumbled for my wayfarers® and my scarf as we said goodbye.

..... "Hey, Mike," he called back to me as we walked away from each other. "Did you take my advice on those soybeans?"

I nodded and waived.

..... "Good move!"

18 comments:

Anonymous said...

So, dear Slats' prognosis is that no American can comment on the racial situation in Argentina or make any negative comment about Argentina whatsoever. Because America is all fucked up, anyone with an American passport is invalidated from expressing anything other than absolute positivity about other countries... hmmmm.

Operating under those assumptions don't we lose all credibility as bloggers? All milk and honey all the time, really? That would be lying...

Say it ain't so Slats. Say it ain't so...

Anonymous said...

And another thing... Nationalism is one of the worst of human sentiments. Just look at the comments on 'Lo que dicen ellos'. Nationalism is what creates and justifies atrocities like the Iraq War. Perpetuating nationalism is a major disservice to everyone.

Unknown said...

Mike,

I like your style. Thanks for the entertaining post. What you say with style others fuck up with ignorance and hatred.

People visiting here are bound to make observations that more or less are true. LQDE comentators may also throw it back in our face that many of those same things or others are also true of our home country. That would be fair enough.

However, the main difference I have seen is that in some of these posts that they have chosen to beat up on the original posters were doing it in a light of discovery of new surroundings.

Sure, Ken and Helen could have added a clarification that they didn't mean that they were not talking in absolutes. Argentina is not like the USA in the 60's. They only meant to pick those things out that reminded them of THEIR USA in the 60's. And it was a catchy way of summing their views to try to get attention.

Will made an observation that was spott on. So what? Their comments say nothing at all about the fact that yes it does exist. They focused on Will's country of origin as if because he came from one of the worl's most divided countries how dare he see a resemblance to that here. You know what my reaction to an Argentine would be who says that the USA is racist? "You are so right. I grew up in that environment, but at least in my small part of the USA I see signs that it is getting better, although I have no idea when it will ever go away and I know that in some parts it is still pretty much the same." I am sure you can see a big difference between my response and the way people respond in LQDE.

I am like you in that I see myself more of an immigrant than an expat. I went through a faze in which I critized my surroundings until I realized I was being an ignorant asshole (although it doesn't sound like you went through that). However, this being my new home, I also feel a responsibility to keep wanting to change what I don't like or at least confront it for what it is.

Yeah, racism, classism and whatever other kind of ism exists all over the world. Just because it may be less or different doesn't mean you are above it. Yeah, I get the impression it's not as bad here although it's one of those things that if you happen to be the 1% that gets victimized (out of the 99% that don't) then scales don't mean a damned thing.

Asado got it right about LQDE. It was a pretty good idea but it is being handled the wrong way. I don't mean that they have to spew love 24/7. It just doesn't have to breed ignorance, hatred, intolerance (not that all the coments are like that but there is a tendency that I am talking about). Can they be so blind as to think that Ken and Helen really thought that their WHOLE Argentine experience really was summed up to being like the USA in the 60's? Can they be so horrified that a foreigner spotted evidence of classism? Can they be so horrified that Debi has had some bad encounters with local men? Can't they make a teeny, tiny, little effort in giving these posts a small benefit of doubt like Pablo Flores mentioned and look at them within the context of their blogs in general? If they did so they might actually respond with constructive, witty, observations themselves. But I guess they can't all be like Mike.

If they want an American to hate maybe they can go to the link below and go to town on this guy. But then again, this might be just too easy a mark. Who wants to beat up on someone who is proud to be an ignorant bigot and waves it around like a Puerto Rican flag in Chicago on Puerto Rican Day.

http://dba-oracle.blogspot.com/2006/12/buenos-aires-paris-of-south-america.html

Anonymous said...

I'd like to add a comment here only because I also did so on the Lo Que Dicen Ellos place (about Ken & Helen) and I think that something is missing in what Frank has posted here.

First of all I'd like to clarify I am no fan of the LQDE methods (for a number of reasons that I won't go into here), but I felt like contributing there on that Ken & Helen occasion, only because of the sense of indignation that I get every time I read something on their blog.

In my opinion the problem with them is the fact that they are writing things along the lines of "we are not actually stupid" and "I am a professor in academia" while at the same time making constant crass errors od all kinds (language ones in both English and Spanish, or conceptual ones like mistaking the Arctic circle with the Antarctic one). All of this wrapped up in the context of their blog being also a teaching tool for their students back home. I agree with most of what Frank says but I think this point I am, making is missing and I also think that these points are sadly buried under belligerence in the LQDE responses, but made clear there, and also made clear in the Slats Johnson story.

As I said, I'm not a fan of any particular blog and I only type a response when I feel strongly about something (Yanqui Mike: I am the "anonymous" who encouraged you to keep reading the BAEG Forum Watch. You in fact published that mail of mine in your page). My point being that Ken and Helen are just as ignorant as some country bumpkins ot from hillbilly land (or dumbfuckistan) and the fact that they claim to be academic and educational in what they write (i.e a cut above) is what's outrageous.

Dr. K said...

I started this blog as a way to keep in touch with people back home. I had no idea that I would eventually have more readers in Argentina than in the USA. These posts were really just meant to be letters back home to family, friends, students, and other people I work with at my little community college back in Maryland.

However, when someone posts a blog, he never knows who is going to read it, and when he has an opinion, he never knows whom he may offend. I never meant to present myself as any kind of authority. I am just a guy trying to learn a language and find his way in a new and different country.

This is my first time outside the USA. Before coming, I imagined what this experience would be like, but I really had no idea what I was in for. The blog was a way of recording my experiences and remembering what I was thinking and feeling while the experiences were still fresh and unprocessed.

Next week, when I am back home, the moments and memories will fade, and my experiences will become little more than stylized vignettes. I hoped that daily blog entries would help capture the moments and help me remember what I was thinking and feeling at that time. I doubt I’ll ever have this opportunity again. After next week, it’s back to work for the rest of my life. This little adventure is over.

I have never made a secret of who I am, where I live, what I am doing here. I have been honest. I may have often been wrong, but I have been honest. And I am surprised and troubled by the level of anger and animosity I read in some of these messages about me. Really, it is unexpected.

Anonymous said...

By the way argentinian readers these are just blogs written as journals for friends and you should not take them so seriously and get all upset and nasty over some trivial comments.

By the way I notice that portenos critisize others constantly and they seem to be whinging a lot. Is that a good attribute to have ?

Anonymous said...

Maybe someone should do a 'What They Say' and translate the comments on 'Lo que dicen ellos' into English. I wouldn't recommend it because it would be embarrassing for Argentina... but you'd expose some serious ignorance, arrogance, and downright nastiness... Stir things up as Mike likes to say...

"Slats" G. Johnson said...

Hey, listen! What I said was private remarks to another guy in a bar. That's like a confessional or something! Interview, my ass. Wait'll I get my hands on this shanky mike and teach him a couple things he musta forgot since he left the windy.

Since I've been personally addressed in this blog thing I'm going to answer.

Come on. A course any American can write anything he wants about anything he sees in Argentina...USA being fucked up or not. When was the last time anybody stopped an American from writing anything? That's just crazy.

I think maybe you wanna write whatever you want and not have anybody say anything bad about it. That's a lil different. It's possible but it's a different thing.

If youse wanna write about, uhh, let see, uhh, classism and racism here in BA, for example, and not have nobody come back and say "whoodawhatdasonafa, where you been livin'? In a tree?" you might wanna compare and contrast some of the race and class problems were STILL havin' back in the old country.

Kid, you kinda looked like you didn't know about that, or you didn't think it existed, or you dint remember. I think that's why a couple two tree Argies got up on their hind legs and tried to refresh you memry a lil bit. It shouldn't a surprised you.

Some of those natives actually had the idea that you thought about it and you knew about it and you remembered it. But that you dint care. They hate that.

An ol' buddy of mine used to call it "The Doctrine of American Exceptionalism." That's where you get to say anything you want and if a foreigner gets mad he's automatically in the wrong. They really hate that.

Hey and if you do that thing on Nationalism, I hope you compare and contrast a little with US Nationalism amongst all the rest. You might get a lil better mail.

And another thing, that Ken guy is a great guy! And he just said that he din't really mean for his post to go out to world. It was more a personal thing. Like writing in your diary or a letter back home. Maddón! He sure got clued in. Specially after that broad in Florida translated it for everybody and his brother back home. There jes ain't no privacy out here.

Anyway, I knew what he was tryin' to say. Actually something very nice about BA. But that's just me. Cause we're like the same age or somthing. But to people here and MAYBE even some really young Americans, it didn' sound that way.

It boils down to these people are sick to their stomachs with big time rich countries tellin' 'em what to do and how to do it and what wrong with things down here. That's it, it's real simple, you gotta know that comin' up to the plate or you're in for a surprise. The good ol' US of A has got the worst rep for that of all of 'em down in this neck of the woods. So if you're American and you start pullin' some a that, you should probably expect an extra portion.

I don' know about the anononymous types that write in here. Maybe Mikey oughta block 'em out or something. I got the feeling they're all the same person.

Bob

Anonymous said...

Senior Bob,

I'm not eligible for Social Security yet, but 'kid' might be a stretch...

Anyway, yeah I get your point I suppose. Mike hit you with one of those ambush interviews at the nudie bar, caught you off guard...

Your position is that Argentines have the right to get angry about the sorts of things that Ken and I wrote. And we are, at least I am, surprised by the level of hostility being shown on that Florida (Arg-American?) woman's blog.

I don't disagree with you, it's just a matter of degree and taste.

And, my current blog is just not the proper format to rant against the US in perspective of Argentina... so I guess I'll take a bit of heat every now and then... which is just fine with me.

I honestly try to be respectful of this country in my writings and think I succeed most of the time. But again, it can't be all milk and honey all the time...

Adios

"Slats" G. Johnson said...

That's exactly it! The sonafabitch got no respect for nothin' that's holy. HE AMBUSHED ME, he did. WHERE IS HE? You know, you're jus not sayin. You're protectin' him, I can smell it.

Hey, I'm sorry about that "kid" stuff. Everybody's a kid to me anymore.

Course their hostile...it's all really new to them. BA types love imported, tho. Once they get used to the idea that all these transplants are writin this stuff, they'll give you their ULTIMATE insult: they'll turn up their nose and ignore you. That hostile stuff'll pass.

It's not like this is Atlanta, for chrissakes!

In that town, if you're from up-north: you're a yankee.

If you live there: you're damn yankee.

If you marry one a their women: YOU'RE A GADDAMN YANKEE!

Nah, down here it's different.

Hey! Write whatch your want.

Just don't get all surprised if they mistake you for one of the same bunch that backed all their dictaters or who tol' em to do every thing the world bank ever said then called 'em idiots for doin' it. They're a lil sensetive about that. They gotta better memry than us.

On the other hand, if the bad mail bugs you, when you wanna write about somethin here that kinda shocks your sensibilities, tell 'em why. Tell 'em why it shocks you.

Tell 'em that it reminds you of somethin back home. Tell 'em you expected 'em to be a little better than shankees but it's ok if they're not.

We all kinda expect these people to be better and be a better place... otherwise, we wouldn'a moved here.

Dont' forget to tell 'em that. They like that. And it's true.

Anonymous said...

Hey Slats,

We're on the same page fer sure... now if you could just talk some sense into that Mike friend of yours... haaa!

I hope you're right about the simmerin-down of that blog. The concept is good, as others have said... It's just over-the-top right now.

And, as you point out, we come down here for a reason... I guess they'll figure that out and forgive us a bit of clumsiness as we adjust to a new place.

Will

P.S. Dunno if ya like this guy, but I stumbled onto this website the other day: http://www.GoRonPaul.com At least it's different from what's been goin on for a while up there...

"Slats" G. Johnson said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
"Slats" G. Johnson said...

Wait a minute. I can't get this gaddam photo thing to work

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Unknown said...

Slats,

You're right. I didn't even mention this in my comment but you gotta get that Yanqui Mike by the short hairs for ambushing you like that.

As for the commentors on that other site... well, you're just not going to change their mind one bit. You might be able to nullify their insults and not give them any more amunition by making sure you specify why you are making certain observations. I mean you can't expect them to assume that you don't mean any harm.

One more thing. I can give you a date as to when that Yanqui Mike might be in a particular place chomping on some free cookies from yours truly. You can get him then.

Saludos,
Frank

Anonymous said...

Hey, Slats! Cheezis H... you write wid a gaddam Chicaaaago accent! Criminy!

Hey, everybody back off on my boy Ken. There's no way anything on his blog is said with malice -- that's just not who he is. But a person out of his element is bound to appear clumsy at times to the cogniscenti. If a child makes a social error, it's not only forgiven, it's actually endearing because children don't know any better. Adults are presumed to know better, but only in the culture in which they're expected to have matured. Think of Ken and Helen as Babes in BA, and maybe their occasional missteps will seem more like the kid who says, trying to compliment his first dance partner, "You sweat less than any fat girl I've ever danced with."

Anonymous said...

Hey, Slats! It's me again. I just re-read Ken's Reminds-Me-Of-The-Sixties post. Dude. You should re-read it too. You seem to have missed it completely. He was NOT saying anything remotely like "BA is 50 yrs behind the times." If anything, he was saying "America has run off the gaddam road!" Every paragraph was brimming with admiration for the way the porteños do things. The last sentence seems to be urging BA not to let itself become like today's America. Where's the negativity??

"Slats" G. Johnson said...

Chas, absolootly. There weren't no malice in any of it. There ain't a malicious bone in that man's body.

It disturbed me that the guy was having so much trouble sayin' what was just another of the wonderful things that he says about BA. I expected better. I at least dint expect that it would be something that could easily be misinterpreted by the locals that are understandably touchy about that stuff.

See what I'm sayin'?

A course he wasn't sayin' it was 50 years behind: he CAME OFF like he was sayin' it.

Hey, try this: re-write it to actually say what the guy was tryin' to get at, leave out all the errors that could even get a Chicagoan a little pissed, and really say it so anyone from anywhere could get the gist wid out even tryin'.

Should take you all a 25 minutes.

Sorry I dint get back to you sooner. I'm 26 klicks out a Concha de la Lora and the internet sucks here amongst the blueberries.

Bob